Curse

TheGreatBoo · Jul 18, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

It's the same shit everyone else is fed up with. Unfortunately, you can't take the easy way out and just grab hench, at least in tombs. I would just get a group with guildmates, or just form your own group. In gvg, I've seen a group of 7 warrior primarys and 1 mesmer primary rip us a new one in under 2 minutes with a guildlord rush. This was in the catacombs one and we had never seen this before. The team doesn't have to be an oldfashion build to be good. It's fun to sometimes find some random people and see what skills and abilities can be used in conjunction with others.

Imp · Jul 18, 2005, 10:27 AM // 10:27

I think the game should be based like the rune traders (or any other trader for that matter) The more a class combination is used the weaker it gets, the rare not much used classes get more powerful d= PvP only of course. This would cause everyone to start playing other classes, thus making the wave a calm summer pond.

This would work for a day then everyone would quit, so don't listen to me.

Nash · Jul 18, 2005, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by catharsis

Plague Touch, Weaken Armour, Rend Enchantments, Mark of Pain for PvE..

Plague Touch is NOT a reason to run W/N. Bring condition removal on Monks.

Weaken Armor isn't good, it takes long to cast and has a big recharge. You waste time you could have spent attacking, it can be removed, you get screwed by Nature's Renewal, and if you have to switch target, it'll be wasted.

Rend Enchantments is good, but I'd rather have it on someone with more energy, and the time to stand and cast stuff.

As for PvE, who cares?

Enigmatics · Jul 18, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

ViM works well with plague touch. Weaken Armor is casted before battle and isn't affected by Renewal, but it basically gives all your attacks 25% armor penetration against casters. Don't forget rigor mortis. Warrior/Monks are most hurt by Nature's Renewal; basically all their secondary skills are disabled.

ShadowWrath · Jul 18, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

One of the characters I play is R/N and it seems now at Iron mines no one wants a ranger anymore.

I find that people take you more if you are a R/Me or R/Mo. They normally assume you can heal or interrupt really well.

catharsis · Jul 18, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Plague Touch is NOT a reason to run W/N. Bring condition removal on Monks.

Depends entirely on who you're playing with. If it's a guild, or an organized group? Sure! By all means, skip Plague Touch. If you're playing in a PUG or arena? Probably best to pack it.

Otherwise, yeah, you're probably right about Weaken Armor.

Quote:

As for PvE, who cares?

About 50% of the player-base, if all the ridiculous PvP vs. PvE arguments are to be taken into account. You need to unlock those skills somehow (granted, this is easier with the favour mechanic).

Zeru · Jul 19, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Hammer aftershock setup has been taken too far, as with all other fotm builds. It's only good as a combo starter because with Backbreaker the monk is on the ground for quite awhile and it's a decent spike. Otherwise it's soso with knocklock capabilities and absolutely blows when considering dps.

Zrave · Jul 19, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

In the example you provided, for maximum effectiveness you should crushing blow after heavy blow, and then aftershock after that. You'll still get them on the ground, assuming they didn't run from you while you were using heavy blow. In my opinion, this is why people like aftershock. Otherwise its just an average skill.

On the larger issue, you can't make people like your builds, and I don't think you have the right to complain either. I've felt the very same thing you are reporting when I was testing necro builds, having to wait 40 minutes to get a group, etc. If I had wanted, I could /fame my rank 8 and probably find a group quickly, but I think its not fair to them when I'm playing a new and untested build :P

Its the price you pay for going against the grain. Like Nash suggested, find a group of players to play with or start your own parties.

Meimei · Jul 19, 2005, 07:29 AM // 07:29

"assuming they didn't run from you while you were using heavy blow"

No they cant they WILL be knockdown again after heavy blow because it connects perfectly and tiely unless if i Miss or my target evade block.

Against Heavy Blow(knockdown) > Crushing Blow > Aftershock, I rather do Heavy blow(knockdown) > Crushing Blow > Extra Hit > Stoning(knockdown) > Extra Hit > Extra Hit > Extra Hit which was previous in one of my test because it does a lot more in total. If you think you can run away from my chain knockdown, you are wrong because all connect perfectly and you will be beat down on the ground at full time. Also Getting Adrenaline is very critical for hammer war, notice that u get ZERO adrenaline after aftershock? If you use this stoning build which i was using previously you get 5 adrenaline before knockdown worn off and you just need 2 more adrenaline to use Devastating hammer AGAIN.

"On the larger issue, you can't make people like your builds"

You are right, but i was just sharing my info and i dont wish ppl to think hammer aftershock is the only build to go.

Zrave · Jul 19, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Yeah a chain knockdown can't be run from, I'm not disputing that. However, if in the middle of a heavy blow swing your target runs away, I believe your character finishes the swing and "tele-hits" your opponent even if in theory he should be out of range, causing a knockdown. However, for the crushing blow you will have to run up, and that wasted time might cause the aftershock to finish casting after your opponent has gotten up.

I don't like stoning on a hammer war because it costs way too much energy. If you just want another knockdown, try bull's strike or gale instead. Ideally though, your target should be dead after that aftershock. It has a 1.75 aftercast which means they can get quite far from you if they survive.

aphex twin · Jul 19, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong Fist

I have tested out KD/Aftershock build for war. Its not that great. Aftershock doesnt do insane damage....and can be easily healed for with 1 orison, or reversal of fortune.

try using backbreaker + crushing blow + aftershock (with 12 earth). that combo usually knocks out 70% of the targets health if not more.

Darksci · Jul 19, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Heres where nice guys finish last.

Just lie. No ones gonna know if your using aftershock or not. IF you fail with your build - heh you learned your lesson then, get aftershock.
If you beat all - well then your build's a success - go tell everyone your not using aftershock and that they are idoits.

Myodato · Jul 19, 2005, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

Heres where nice guys finish last.

Just lie. No ones gonna know if your using aftershock or not. If you fail with your build - heh you learned your lesson then, get aftershock.
If you beat all - well then your build's a success - go tell everyone your not using aftershock and that they are idoits.

Say that his W/N uses Aftershock ? Great idea

Actually, that might be a good way of finding groups not to join.

The thing is, for pick up groups, people will always take cookie cutter builds because it's easier than spending hours fine tuning everyone to work together. Yeah, it sucks if you want to try something a little more interesting, but it's just he way it is. There is a reason so many pugs go 5 ele 3 monks, because they know exactly what they're getting and what to do with it.

Darksci · Jul 19, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

oops mis read there. My mistake :P

ArcticFlame · Jul 19, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I'm a W/E Hammer Warrior, and at least to me, it seems like aftershock has lost respect among the masses. I ran with an aftershock build for awhile, and I was getting 100-150 damage on KD'ed opponents. However, I switched to stoning later on, which gives me more versatility and better chain knockdown potential. A Warrior is not about spike damage, and that's something that some people forget.

People should not be 'discriminating' against a W/N for any reason... and I find that most groups are happy to accept any kind of build (except, maybe in Tombs). If they ask, I just say that I run a build similar to the norm, but with much more sustainability.

Meimei · Jul 19, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

Heres where nice guys finish last.

Just lie. No ones gonna know if your using aftershock or not. IF you fail with your build - heh you learned your lesson then, get aftershock.
If you beat all - well then your build's a success - go tell everyone your not using aftershock and that they are idoits.

Heh I've try and test everything i could think off, hell I mess with aftershock a lot. And tell you what, i didnt fail on aftershock build, i just figure something stronger then aftershock. And you probably havent try anything beside aftershock.

The most important thing i discover is FRENZY which it seems most you dont know how it works. If you buff frenzy in the middle of chain knockdown, you will attack extremely fast, Even your adrenaline skills will swing faster. If you have frenzy and do Devastating(knockdown) > Crushing > Heavy(knockdown) , Heavy Blow WILL NOT KNOCKDOWN YOUR TARGET because your target is STILL on the ground because you are attacking TOO FAST. So you have to do Devastating(knockdown) > Crushing > Extra hit > Heavy(Knockdown) > Extra hit > Extra hit > Extra hit, and your target will die if you land this combo on him even with 100% health. Boosting your attack speed in the middle of chain knockdown is increadbly insane and why i dont like aftershock because it complete stop you from attacking for 2 3/4 secs which is bad for frenzy and i can swing 3 regular attacks for 2 3/4 secs.

Go test out Frenzy knockdown before you Flame me. Try out with other frenzy knockdown combination too if you like.
Oh i hit harder then most Hammer war because i have 12+4 hammer, 12+1 str and i only need 3 curse for rend enchancement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zrave

Yeah a chain knockdown can't be run from, I'm not disputing that. However, if in the middle of a heavy blow swing your target runs away, I believe your character finishes the swing and "tele-hits" your opponent even if in theory he should be out of range, causing a knockdown. However, for the crushing blow you will have to run up, and that wasted time might cause the aftershock to finish casting after your opponent has gotten up.

I don't like stoning on a hammer war because it costs way too much energy. If you just want another knockdown, try bull's strike or gale instead. Ideally though, your target should be dead after that aftershock. It has a 1.75 aftercast which means they can get quite far from you if they survive.

I never have that problem even if my target tried to run away from my teleport hit konckdown because my target is still close to me, and i can still do my thing nicely. Dont forget i got the frenzy speed on me

For stoning problem:
Glyph of Lesser Energy - Glyph - 5 mana
Your next spell costs 15 less Energy to cast
so basicly i spend 5 mana for Glyph of Lesser Energy and 0 mana for Stoning. Also 68 dmg for stoning isnt too bad ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by aphex twin

try using backbreaker + crushing blow + aftershock (with 12 earth). that combo usually knocks out 70% of the targets health if not more.

I did metion on my test that I did took off 70% of target's health with aftershock with Devastating > Crushing > Heavy > Aftershock. But then the monk can recover their health quickly then that's the problem. Right now i can take off 100% of my target's health(casters).

Because some Extremely smart monk knows how to get themselves protect in the middle of 3/4 second between my 2 chain knockdowns which get me hard headache. I didnt know what they cast, seems like almost instant cause my 2nd knockdown didnt interrupt it. So I've tried (Frenzy) Backbreaker(knockdown) > Crushing > Mighty Blow > Aftershock. I can take off 100% of my target's health ONLY if i land Critical Hit and that is base on LUCK which i dont like. I also dont like the 10 adrenaline.